Have country/region value in control center stick in new sessions (unaffected by the language switch when searching)

Sswap · Sep 15, 2022

Vlad Do you want to separate region in search result page and the global setting?
Vlad If the two differ, what region is used for your next search and what is the purpose of the global setting?

global setting should have what I will always see in the next search (next browser session, next open browser window, ...). Changing its value affects all future queries.

search result page (accessing kagi.com and setting it there before the query is included here) should have what I expect to see in this search (this session). Changing its value affects this search only (or the one I am about to input in case of accessing kagi.com).

I have the same issue with the newly introduced region bangs. Cool feature, but they change things globally. They should change things for the current search only.

Vlad · Sep 15, 2022

swap When you say current search do you mean just the next search, and the second search will revert to the global setting or it should stay for the duration of the entire search session (until browser tab is closed)?

What happens if you change region to say Germany, and then in control center you change region to Italy. What should be used for the next search?

If you change safe search in control center, should this change reflect for the next search/current search sessions or should it change the global setting (same for theme etc)

z64 · Sep 15, 2022

It should simply behave like every other filter in the app. It is surprising and bothersome that it changes the setting permanently, and invokes confusing behavior with the "clear" button - since you can't actually "clear" it.

Vlad · Sep 15, 2022

z64

It should simply behave like every other filter in the app

No other "filter" has it's mirror as a global setting so we should understand this fully from an end-to-end UX perspective.

Sswap · Sep 15, 2022

Vlad When you say current search do you mean just the next search, and the second search will revert to the global setting or it should stay for the duration of the entire search session (until browser tab is closed)?

I think that the most consistent way would be the current search session (until browser tab is closed). Next time I access kagi, global settings is applied again.

What happens if you change region to say Germany, and the in control center you change region to Italy. What should be used for the next search?

Like this?

Window on the left stays with Germany. If I close that window and open a new one, it should be set to Italy.

Similarly, if in the window on the left I suddenly search for !fr test, it will switch to France as expected. But, the global setting (on the right) stays with Italy as well as any newly opened window.

If you change safe search in control center, should this change reflect for the next search/current search sessions or should it change the global setting (same for theme etc)

Have not thought much about other settings but, to me, anything that I am able to change from here (see below) AND that has a corresponding global setting, will be a temporary change (current session)

I am uncertain if it would all make sense, the same as with the country/region settings.

P.S. please note that my country/region is set to France in the last screenshot. This is because I performed the !fr test query before. This is the annoying part :-)

z64 · Sep 15, 2022

I'm speaking as a user of the app: It is useless to me that it syncronizes the two. I waste my time having to reset it back to US. Instead of just closing the tab, I have to go out of my way to open the setting again and change it back.

When I change regions with the filter, I intend to quickly check results in other regions, then go back to US, 100% of the time.

Sswap · Sep 15, 2022

@Vlad the following behaves like I would want to see language to behave:

I perform the same search. First, I open the window on the left. I search for test with a lens activated.

THEN, I open the window on the right and search for test. The lens is turned off.

I don't know if lenses can also be globally set in the control panel, I have not checked, but I would like languages to behave like that. With the addition that a default one for a new window can be globally specified.

Edit: don't mind France in the second screenshot. It's there because...I forgot to switch back to International, or whatever ️

Vlad · Sep 15, 2022

z64

I intend to quickly check results in other regions, then go back to US, 100% of the time.

By "then" you mean in a new tab?

z64 · Sep 15, 2022

@Vlad Sure:

New tab
Back to homepage
On my phone / different device

Filter's don't persist through any of these things. It is frustrating that region is the exception.

Vlad · Sep 15, 2022

swap By Control Center I meant this:

What should happen when the user makes that change?

Vlad · Sep 15, 2022

z64

Back to homepage

@swap If you change the region in search results, and go back to the home page (for example by clicking the logo) in the same search session, do you expect it to stay or revert to global setting?

Sswap · Sep 15, 2022

Vlad

I had not noticed that third language selector. That one inspires me to be a global option as well.

Vlad

I admit that the (now) two global option switches may suggest different things because of where they are located. Still, the better UX approach to me is that, the moment I change an option, something must change in the system's behavior. It should change the current search session to France, yes.

But, if in the same session, a moment later, I change the one in the main panel to Germany, the one on the right stays with France.

This assuming that the selector on the right needs to stay where it is right now.

Vlad · Sep 15, 2022

swap

Huh...

The one in control center is a global setting. You say that you expect it to influence your current filter setting and this complicates the workflow propsoed here (where global and "filter" region are two different things).

Also can you address the expectation when going back to home page in the same search session?

Sswap · Sep 15, 2022

Vlad The one in control center is a global setting. You say that you expect it to influence your current filter setting and this complicates the workflow propsoed here (where global and "filter" region are two different things).

I’m confused now. I think that one of the two “global” ones should go. Three settings are too much. Which one, not sure.

Vlad Also can you address the expectation when going back to home page in the same search session?

I tried, in the second reply of my previous post. If I make a change, the change should be reflected somewhere including the current window. But, I also think that this is a minor issue, and it also depends on which global switch stays.

Vlad · Sep 15, 2022

swap Assuming we remove the region setting in the control center, would you expect that going back to home page your region setting is reset to global ?

Sswap · Sep 15, 2022

Vlad

I will call one local, the other global.

I will pretend that the one under "All Settings" does not exist (that one would global, too).

Current situation:
local: France
global: France

I change local to Germany.
local: Germany
global: France

I do my searches, and then I close the window. I open a new window.
local: France
global: France

I change global to Italy. I stay in the current window (click on the logo, whatever).
local: Italy
global: Italy

I do my searches, and then I close the window. I open a new window. This is the situation:
local: Italy
global: Italy

(nothing has changed). I change local to Austria. I stay in the current window
local: Austria
global: Italy

I change global to International. I stay in the current window.
local : International
global: International

I change local to Algeria. I stay in the current window.
local : Algeria
global : International

I close the window. Two hours later, I open kagi again.
local : International
global: International

@z64 would this make sense to you?

@Vlad please note that the new region bangs here would behave exactly like local.

z64 · Sep 15, 2022

swap Yes, I think that more or less sounds in-line with how filters work normally, except that you propose that the sync should be "one-way" from global -> local, instead of both directions as it is now. Let me know if I got that right.

While I find any syncronization between the two unecessary, I would be fine with this - it is only the local -> global sync that I want gone

Sswap · Sep 15, 2022

z64 except that you propose that the sync should be "one-way" from global -> local, instead of both directions as it is now. Let me know if I got that right.

You got it right. I did not originally propose that one-way sync. @Vlad asked about it, and it made sense to me in a “sure, why not” way. Otherwise, my original request was the same as yours :-)

Vlad · Sep 15, 2022

swap What do you expect to happen with your local region setting when you go from search results to home page (kagi.com) (not close the browser tab, just go back to landing page in the same search session)?

Do you prefer the change in global region setting to reflect on the current local setting or not?

Sswap · Sep 15, 2022

Vlad

I will reduce everything to two cases, but you have two options:

Option A
Changing local never changes global.
Changing global changes local in the next session (browser refresh, new window, etc.)

Option B
Changing local never changes global.
Changing global changes local immediately.

With both options, region bangs = local.
With both options, a change to local has the scope of a session.

Option A was my original request and the one @z64 is referring to.
Option B is what came out after your various inputs. Option B may work, and I offered my vision for it, but I do not find it a must-have. Especially if implementing it makes things complicated.

Vlad What do you expect to happen with your local region setting when you go from search results to home page (kagi.com) (not close the browser tab, just go back to landing page in the same search session)?

A change to local has session scope. If go back to the homepage and search again, its value stays the same. Even if I have just changed it (no matter if with Option A or with Option B). It would be equivalent to deleting the input text from the search results.