Remove Grok from Kagi Assistant

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JdH

[deleted] just note that your ethics are not everyone's ethics and thus My question remains unanswered: Why remove only Grok and not all other AI's from companies or persons that one might find unethical?

And all the complains about Musk being fascist sounds to me like all the political accusations we have here in Germany, where everyone is called Nazi who stands for even slight conservative values. Yet all those people don't realize that they are using fascistic methods to fight those the call the political right (it's not like they are going for the extremists - being normal is enough for those).
I'd rather not see Kagi going that route.

carl

Shouldn't you guys also ask Apple and Google to block x.com and other websites you don't like from being accessible through their browsers while we're at it? Do you think they would listen to such a request? If not, then why should Kagi?

kirkmc

carl False equivalence, if you can't see that, well, there's not much to say.

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Dustin

madhatter Definitely don't disagree with you there. I personally choose not to use Grok for all of the very valid reasons given in this thread. If I had the ability to remove it from my list I absolutely would along with some others just for the sake of having a smaller, less confusing list of models for myself.

I guess at the end of the day, there are no ethical billionaires and whether one chooses to patronize their services or not is an individual choice. All choices we make as consumers come with ethical considerations

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RoxyRoxyRoxy

Hey all, I'd just like to jump in real quick and clarify a few things on the technical side. As has been said by @youngji22 X's Grok implementation is entirely separate from what Kagi gets via API. Any behaviors you see from Grok on X will not impact Kagi's Grok offering unless and until the base model is changed somehow (i.e. not just system prompt shenanigans). If you run into these types of issues with Grok, please don't hesitate to post them, it's really genuinely helpful to have as much info on this as possible.

Grok is a legitimately powerful model and we'd like to continue offering it to ensure that Kagi subscribers have access to the best-in-class LLM tools; but we understand this is a touchy subject for a variety of reasons. We're monitoring the situation and if circumstances change we'll reevaluate offerings.

I'd also like pre-emptively clarify in this thread (this has been raised in offsite discussions) that Grok isn't used for any of our other AI offerings. It's only ever invoked when you specifically choose to use Grok in Assistant.

Finally (thanks for bearing with me :P) things are getting a bit heated in the thread so I'd like to just gently remind everyone to remember to stay civil and constructive with the discussion, it makes the site better for everyone 🙂

Thanks to everyone that's given their thoughts on this, I know this is an important topic for many of you so I'm marking this as under review to invite further discussion.

kirkmc

JdH I think Grok is the only one that was programmed by its creators to call itself "Mechahitler." If other LLMs did that, then I'd not want them around.

As for the rest of your comments, um, pfft.

ajvermillion

kirkmc Grok did not call itself "MechaHitler"! It was told to not shy away from politically incorrect questions and a user forced it to choose between "MechaHitler" and "Gigajew". It is a dumb response, but doesn't show any drop in output quality, so I'd be pleased to leave it in the list and have most people ignore it for now.

JdH I'd rather not debate all of politics here. That sounds like a way to distract from the basic question "Should Grok be removed from the list?", to which I think many people have voiced concerned opposition.

MattM
Edit: Props to the devs for measuring things so we don't have to guess. ¡Viva Kagi!

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MattM

Just to chime in as the AI lead here -- We have an internal test for refusal to engage, sensitive topics, etc.

Grok4 (through the API) answered almost exactly as grok3 on it.

The mechahitler crap was almost certainly coming from a system prompt that they added over at twitter to please the CEO -- it's unrelated to the core model.

As for removing it -- it's still a frontier level model and it does give a completely different style of final answer than Claude or GPT. So we'd be removing a model some of our users want because at a completely different place some people configured it in a childish way.

We'll seriously reconsider grok when the training procedure of the model itself affects the quality in a negative way.

JdH

ajvermillion It's not like I have started a political discussion. It was political from the very start, with people later calling Musk fascist and other stuff. Why not call out those that started it?

Well lets bury it. I'd be happy to keep it on arguments focusing on AI quality instead. And all I read here against it very some prompts that lead to answerers considered inappropriate, that never could be reproduced with Kagi? For sure that's no reason to remove it. Or is it?

And yes I've seen Grok give some wild responses tasked with image recognition. But its not like other AI's never give wild responses. Perhaps they don't give responses in certain direction because they are trained differently or perhaps those topics are hard blocked away in their coding? Who knows?

InternetChunk

X already repaired Grok and it doesn't seem to get these wild ideas anymore. Since Kagi Assistant is basically choose your own AI buffet rather than a Kagi made AI (which is fine) removing Grok without rational reason (e.g. security/data risk, biased opinions, wildly inaccurate results) would be a big overstep by Kagi that could be interpreted as political bias.

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mordae

JdH I do not care about quality of the model. I care that a person who actively supports and helps to implement fascism owns it. I do not feel safe with a search provider that collaborates with overt fascists since at some point there will be a degree of dependency and fascists will have the leverage.

And when I say fascists, I explicitly mean people Umberto Eco describes in Ur-Fascism, not throwing it around as a random meaningless insult, but as a well understood political ideology that killed and/or enslaved millions.

InternetChunk

mordae [Redacted by a moderator]
This discussion is pointless, I would urge the mods to close this "issue".

madhatter

InternetChunk

Mate, please be civil. You are talking about (and to) real people here. There's really no need for name calling even if you disagree.

RoxyRoxyRoxy

InternetChunk InternetChunk
Hi @InternetChunk, I can appreciate that this is a topic you may be passionate about, but please keep discussion civil and focused on the topic at hand.

InternetChunk

madhatter I would argue fighting against spreading idiocy on the forum is more important but alright alright

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