Option to choose or exclude specific external indexes

paulrudy

luked I also find it concerning that both:

That thread that I linked above was locked, despite it being highly voted upon.
Kagi has since removed their list of indices they use to collate search data from, which makes me suspicious of future claims of transparency and privacy they may make.

Exactly this. It's not just the inclusion of Yandex. It's also Vlad's overly dismissive and generalizing tone in response.

And moreover, it's these moves you cited that hide previously available information that caused me to stop my subscription.

Attitudes and actions like these have unfortunately already corroded my trust in the company, and--for both logged-in search and not-yet-open-source browser--a lot depends on trust.

Robtb

luked
Wow, removing references to the indexes used is really slimy, makes you wonder if Kagi has more connections to nefarious parties than just the use of Yandex.

It's a real pity since I've generally been a fan of the product, I guess I'll have a go at setting up SearXNG unless someone knows of a company doing what Kagi does but ethically.

MrMoment

I’ve now cancelled my subscription due to the low quality of search results from Yandex that ruin the whole experience.

Hopefully this will be fixed, then I will happily return.

Good luck on your journey!

luked

Re-raising this issue with an example of how having Yandex as an external index is actually making search results worse, not better. This was the twelfth result for the query lsof port. Why on earth does Kagi think I want some Russian result I can't read for a fairly standard question about a unix command? The page doesn't even load.

Search Query

Useless result

Xytronix

luked Its not translated, thats causing issues.

I explained the issues here: https://kagifeedback.org/d/7799-integrate-kagi-translate-in-search-queries

It appears to be that Kagi decides for one search engine during query instead of mixing results of many.

I do support both mixing results and deciding for one index during query to save cost.

As voices were raised against inclusion of controversial search engines, I do believe an exclusion can be added as they are not deciding to mix results yet.

InternetChunk

Xytronix Well that's rather disappointing. I thought Kagi mixed them into one unique one, choosing only one specific index seems lazy and counter productive if we want Kagi search to be the best search on the web.

Pleonasm

Xytronix It appears to be that Kagi decides for one search engine during query instead of mixing results of many.

Note that Kagi's Docs says: "Typically, every search query on Kagi will call a dozen or so different sources simultaneously, all with the purpose of bringing the best possible search results to the user in a split second."

Presumably the outputs from all those calls are merged to yield "the best possible search results"?

InternetChunk

Can anyone from the staff team confirm this? Is Kagi mixing every search engine into one, mixes them into one but adds its own sprinkles of magic or does it choose one search engine per query it decides is the best for this specific query?

This doesn’t seem like a trade secret especially if Kagi wants to (and hopefully does) go open source.

Changing the answer to this question on Kagi Docs to be more direct and clear would go a long way.

Pleonasm

InternetChunk Can anyone from the staff team confirm this? Is Kagi mixing every search engine into one, mixes them into one but adds its own sprinkles of magic or does it choose one search engine per query it decides is the best for this specific query?

A friendly reminder to the Kagi team to please clarify or confirm the information in Kagi's Docs: "Typically, every search query on Kagi will call a dozen or so different sources simultaneously, all with the purpose of bringing the best possible search results to the user in a split second.". (Thank you.)

luked

I'll be honest I'm using this thread more to re-raise the "Kagi shouldn't be using Yandex" thread that was closed by Vlad. It's a shame they won't address this, and while I do appreciate the additional functionality and projects Kagi work on, sometimes I do find their search a bit lacking, and that's the core reason I use their service.

More focus on search quality and user control over indexes please.

dreifach

Not sure where to put this request, but one of the things I find frustrating about Yandex's use is that images results sometimes refer directly to Yandex's URL. Below is one example where its maps service is linked to. If Yandex continues to be used, at least exclude direct Yandex URLs from results and only include results that Yandex itself surfaces externally.

A somewhat separate request is that I want to be able to exclude .ru domains in entirety, or that they should be excluded automatically depending on my location and the context of my search. I struggle to understand how they would be relevant to me where I'm searching from (the UK). Yandex surfacing .ru results does not provide any utility for me. See the below example.

MrMoment

dreifach I’ve created a ticket on that which I initially thought was a bug https://kagifeedback.org/d/7104-not-possible-to-block-tld-in-personalised-results - please upvote. I hope this will be solved so I can return to kagi.

I’ve cancelled my subscription due to the low quality of the search results because of this, I need to do an eye scan of every url before following a link since these results are not only irrelevant - they are malicious.

dreifach

MrMoment Have posted there too. I'm not inclined to cancel my subscription as Kagi Search is great overall, but I do hope the team addresses this issue.

Regain391

I personally am a user that would just keep all of the indexes enabled if such a feature existed. However, I agree that allowing users to decide whether to enable the use of any particular index would be consistent with Kagi's emphasis on user choice, and an overall good feature to implement.

Gredharm

I think anyone claiming they have a paid sub and would end it because of Yandex or Brave is just lying to push a political agenda. But I always like more options, so the ability to choose which sources I use, I see as a positive.

luked

Gredharm Several of the people here have [deleted] statuses presumably because they did cancel their membership due to use of Yandex, so I don't know accusing them of "lying" is an accurate assessment when they appear to have acted with conviction.

And regardless of your views on the issue, a disagreement with product direction or how that product functions is a totally valid reason to support/stop supporting said product, regardless of whether it's "political" or not, and that's the entire point of a free market.

MrMoment

Gredharm
Ironically, you come into this issue thread only to deliver this opinion and argue that the other people in this thread are pushing a political agenda. The only person I see pushing a political agenda here is you. There’s always room for trolling I guess.

If you are serious, I subscribed for around six months and I ended my subscription solely because the garbage search results from the garbage Yandex index from the garbage country of Russia was ruining my search experience, and it wasn’t possible to filter out that garbage. I still hope that this bug will be fixed so that I can return.

You can take a look at my related issue here if you are in doubt, as you will see examples of the issue more clearly: https://kagifeedback.org/d/7104-not-possible-to-block-tld-in-personalised-results

Gredharm

luked I agree with your point that it is totally valid to cancel an account for any reason, including how it functions and even political beliefs.

I just know from experience that when lots of people flood in to make loud political arguments about a product (not complaining about functionality, but a political aspect of the product/service/company), that usually they aren't real paid users.

Anyone can make an account on here, you don't even need a free Kagi account to post.

Robtb

Gredharm While I'm sure there are some people doing exactly that, I for one have been a paid Kagi user for over a year now and would really prefer to not be supporting Yandex. If anyone starts meaningfully competing with Kagi without supporting Yandex I'd jump ship immediately.

Gredharm

MrMoment Good, see your other thread actually makes a legitimate point about issues with Yandex and Russian results being unable to be prioritized appropriately in Image search. In normal search, it doesn't seem to be an issue, and there's also the ability to block domains from future results. That feature doesn't exist in image search.

So you're making a legitimate complaint about a problem with the image search functionality, but then you're turning it into a political problem and reason to get rid of Yandex entirely for political reasons, rather than simply asking Kagi to fix what is actually a quality of results problem.

Sometimes, I WANT Russian results. I've been to Russia before, I have several friends who fled Russia, I have friends living in Russia right now. I don't want to hide from information from Russia, even propaganda, if that is what locals would see, so I can understand what they experience. I would like the ability to chose when I do and when I don't see it.

I don't want my search engine telling me what I am and am not permitted to know. That's why I left the free ones and decided to use Kagi.

Robtb

Gredharm Sounds like we're in agreement, I just want the choice over the indexes used. I don't begrudge others wanting to see Yandex results, I would just personally like to disable them (for "political" reasons).
I don't think anyone in this thread is asking for Yandex to be removed for everyone, just the option to disable it for themselves.

MrMoment

Gredharm
Robtb

I agree with both of you.

Given how the personalization of search results in Kagi is built, I’d argue that any reason for removing specific sites, indexes etc are legitimate, including political. While I’d like to be able to deactivate Yandex permanently for myself (I could absolutely pay extra for that if the reason for its inclusion is because it’s cheaper) I would be returning if I could block .ru and some other TLD’s from both regular search and image search. And since the functionality is technically there (-.ru works) I don’t understand why Kagi doesn’t support this already?

« Previous Page Next Page »