Option to turn off all AI features

marc_vb

carl AI has been "interpreting" what you type into a search engine for at least a decade by now.

That's not the type of AI we're talking about here. We're talking about AI making use of LLM's.

andreagrandi

marc_vb Carl’s reply is a good example of why I don’t like generative AI in search results: it’s very often wrong but pretend to know things 😅

marc_vb

andreagrandi
Yes indeed.

Problem is that you'll only see that if you ask those dumb AI's questions on subjects you have knowledge of. And then you often see answers that are wrong.

But questions are normally made on subjects you don't have knowledge of. And then you think it's smart, because to you the text looks ok.

There's so much wrong with generative AI. It gives people the wrong information. And, it makes people dumb, because they don't investigate themselves anymore.

A bit the same as navigation systems in cars. In the days before these, I could cross the country purely with the knowledge of roads and signs, and with the help of paper maps. Now I can't do that anymore, at least not as good as in those days. And, car navigation is also sometimes wrong.

AI is only good for big tech, as people are now blindly feeding it information, because "it's so cool". I personally don't want to be part of that.

carl

andreagrandi Very original to compare other posters an AI. Haven't seen that a thousand times...

The fact is that Kagi doesn't shove AI down your throat and has an easy way to turn off AI. Ask yourself if maybe the main point to be heard and seen or is it having an actual issue resolved?

Not to mention that a huge chunk of your search results will land you on pages full of AI-generated text, even in Kagi.

If you want almost AI-free results there is an easy way, search using Google Books or Z-Library.

andreagrandi

Vlad thanks for understanding Vlad. I should maybe give you more context about me, so that you can better understand requirements. I’m not opposed to the usage of generative AI in certain contexts. I personally use it with GitHub Copilot and I also use ChatGPT.

The difference there is that in that case I 100% expect the text to be generated, so I know I need to double check and verify.

In a search engine instead, I expect to find documents and pages written by humans. I use a search engine sometimes to verify a text produced by AI. If the results are AI generated too, how do I verify information?

That’s why, in my request, I specified “disable AI features from search”.

I do like Summariser for example, but I only use it when I want. I wouldn’t want it to be activated when I do a simple search.

marc_vb

andreagrandi I do like Summariser for example

I don't, as in many cases those are wrong also, so I still have to investigate myself, which I can do in the first place.

Vlad

andreagrandi

That’s why, in my request, I specified “disable AI features from search”.

Just to align on the context, AI is used in search everywhere, for example to understand query intent or rank pages. What I think you mean is "LLM features in search"?

This is where Kagi has only one such feature that triggers semi-automatically when you add ? to the query and it can already be disabled as discussed previously.

Ikuti

Hi, firstly as a current trial and possible future user I just wanted to say I very much welcome Vlad way of responses, trying to get into problem while also explaining theirs and the team logic behind the features/ possible solutions. Great communicating all around.

Now I personally would also prefer not to use any AI (ML) features when getting the answer since the act of web search is as other pointed out the act of sanity check on anything I'm doing at that moment.

It's good to know most features are disabled as default beside quick answer. I also don't mind the UI elements being left there (as long as they are not too annoying).

But I do agree with andregrandi that either one master boolean to turn off quick answer but also any new AI features related to manipulating the final answer would be helpful. While for now it's just 1 feature I don't expect it will always forever be just 1 feature till the end of time. And having to browse through settings to find which features I need to turn off is akin to installing windows and than having to turn off all the annoying features, not the best user experience.

I also understand Vlad worry that if such flag exists, it could make users wary there are more than 1 feature currently inside Kagi which as I understand would be false. In that case a compromise to me would be to keep all the AI related features under 1 category inside the settings. For now it can be a subcategory in general settings, in the future if there are more AI features, it's own category. This way I and others who don't want AI inside their answers would have an easy place to just turn off all that, while new users wouldn't be scared off by the master toggle that makes it feel like there are more AI features than there are in reality.

Vlad

Ikuti

In that case a compromise to me would be to keep all the AI related features under 1 category inside the settings.

I think this makes sense. We already have Assistant related settings (which are currently accessible in ultimate plan only) and it makes sense to move everything related into one settings page.

andreagrandi

Vlad

DuckDuckGo settings are a good example of how you could do this. They don’t have a global switch, but at least all the AI stuff is grouped under an explicit category

Vlad

andreagrandi This is helpful. I think this kind of 'master switch' would also mean removing it from UI, so if we had a switch like "Disable LLM features in Search" it seems you would expect that it would:

Hide Quick Answer
Hide Summarize/Ask questions
Hide Assistant features

Correct?

Vlad

carl This is not helpful, lets keep it in the spirit of collaboration.

andreagrandi

Vlad yes, I did mean LLM features in search results

carl

Vlad If you read my post again, I think you can see that it is quite helpful, since it contains advice on how to search without getting any AI generated content in the search results. A method that works right now and that I use myself when it is essential that sources contain no machine generated stuff. Now that big tech is proudly releasing many AI tools for content generation, I believe these book sources will only increase in importance.

"Disable LLM features in Search"

Does the average person know this acronym? Maybe "Disable AI features in search" would fit better? Or "Machine generated"?

marc_vb

Vlad

Vlad
I personally also want the AI

Vlad
For me that’s correct.

andreagrandi

Vlad correct. Either a “master switch” or just like the screenshot I provided which comes from DDG settings.

Vlad

carl I meant the general tone of discussion, lets keep it constructive vs confrontational. Thanks.

ChristOFF

Provide a Plan for Kagi without any AI
a Plan with the search engine only

I would like to see a plan without any AI only search

Vlad

ChristOFF AI is used in search everywhere for example to analyze query intent, rank pages etc. Do you mean LLMs in particular?

marc_vb

Vlad
I personally am indeed referring to LLM and other AI features that violates privacy / IP and/or negatively affects the environment (eg. huge energy consumption).

AI is (mis)used for a lot of things lately, because it's "cool". You could say that Photoshop already had AI in 1990 (...). But seriously, using "AI" for local processes, would be no problem for me personally. As long as the search results aren't based on "guessing" what the searcher wants and is just providing the best results based on the query.

ChristOFF

Vlad I mean external costly LLM usage
OpenAI is not cheap.
I know that a token is cheap but at the end of the day it will cost Kagi a LOT if I summarize a lot of content.

My point is

External LLM will cost a lot
I don't want to pay for that (as I won't use it)
I want to continue to pay for the best search engine

Vlad

AI is a broad term and encompasses machine learning. Machine learning has been used in search for decades. It is almost impossible to run large scale web search without the use of machine learning in some context.

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