Downgrading from Ultimate Because of Recent Changes (Rant) + Billing Pro-Rating Not Working?

Timmy256

Hi,

I've been paying for annual Ultimate for the Assistant feature, but now that it has been giving away to everybody, I see no value in paying for this tier anymore. Yeah, I know about the "premium" LLMs, but I don't care. I'll pay for Perplexity Pro and end up with a way better experience.

Also I'm not liking some things I'm seeing; seems like it's steering away from the transparency that Kagi is supposed to stand for? The "Fair Usage" enforcement affecting everyone for only a few people that were abusing the system? Now it means that I would get automatically blocked if I need to run an extra prompt out of my "allowance", instead of having soft-limits or just blocking those bad actors (not that I would be affected anyways - see below, but it's the principle)

With the introduction of the new detailed billing system it made even more obvious that I'm wasting money on the plan. We are in June and I'm using only $20 in AI tokens out of the $270 - a complete waste.

Another thing I'm not liking regarding transparency, the verbiage in of the Starter plan saying "Enough searches to get you started", but not specifying anywhere there (or in the tooltip) that you are limited to 300. Hope that Kagi doesn't start straying away from its vision...

Anyway, rant over, I went to switch my plan to Professional in the Billing settings. From what I understand, the remaining months instead of paying $25 (or the annual discounted value) should distribute now to the ~$10 of the Professional; effectively extending my renewal period. My renewal period for Ultimate is next January; when clicking to downgrade to Professional, I get a confirmation text saying that my "new" renewal period would be also in January... shouldn't it be extended a lot longer if I'm switching now? What would be the point of somebody downgrading from Annual Ultimate to Annual Professional in June then, if you get no extension of the renewal, no refunds and you lose functionality in Ultimate (e.g. the "premium" models) that you already paid for? Where is the celebrated "Fair Pricing" showing here?

Unless I'm misunderstanding something, the downgrade flow there seems broken. Could you please let me know?

Thanks.

Extend the duration of the renewal for several months, since I'm downgrading from Ultimate to Professional in Annual

laiz

Hey, Timmy,
I'll do my best to address some of these observations with the information I have.

Timmy256 no value in paying for this tier anymore

If you don't see the value in the more advanced/expensive LLMs, it indeed is a good idea to switch to the Professional plan for basic LLMs — and the unparalleled search experience, of course.

Timmy256 The Fair Usage enforcement affecting everyone for only a few people that were abusing it?

Kagi needs to remain financially sustainable so it only makes sense they would implement such limitations. This makes competing with other companies a challenge as there are actors who are able to burn VC capital and offer people limitless access to all kinds of models.

I believe it is also a better approach to apply the limits to every user as the vast, vast majority will never get even close to hitting the limits. It is also worth mentioning that a user who has used 80% of their AI quota will receive a notification about it so they are not caught completely off-guard. That will also allow them to review their usage habits.

Timmy256 Another thing I'm not liking regarding transparency, the verbiage in of the Starter plan saying "Enough searches to get you started", but not specifying anywhere there (or in the tooltip) that you are limited to 300. Hope that Kagi doesn't start straying away from its vision...

I assume you are talking about https://kagi.com/pricing, the number of searches should be present at the top section of the 'plan card'

Timmy256 What would be the point of somebody downgrading from Annual Ultimate to Annual Professional then, if you get no extension of the renewal, no refunds and you lose functionality that you already paid for?

This might not be communicated by the Stripe page clearly enough but you do not lose the leftover balance. Instead, come January, you should still have some amount of money left on your account which would be used for the next year of Professional plan.

However, I urge you to email support@kagi.com to double check this. I also believe you could cancel your annual ultimate plan, and then subscribe to the annual professional plan. This would get you 12 months of professional plan with a renewal date of June 9.

z64

Heya @Timmy256 , to answer all the billing related stuff first:

Another thing I'm not liking regarding transparency, the verbiage in of the Starter plan saying "Enough searches to get you started", but not specifying anywhere there (or in the tooltip) that you are limited to 300. Hope that Kagi doesn't start straying away from its vision...

It is at the very top of the plan box; but I think it's fair enough that we could reiterate in the details section below - if that is what you are suggesting? Let me know if I understood you right and I'll pass that feedback along to the team.

My renewal period for Ultimate is next January; when clicking to downgrade to Professional, I get a confirmation text saying that my "new" renewal period would be also in January...

Yes, generally your renewal time would not change. If you have money that has not been expended (e.g., you still have "credit"), that will be drawn from first before charging you for any remainder.

So, if I am following you correctly, your next annual renewal would be discounted by the difference. This is how Stripe works, not something that Kagi implements.

That's to the best of my knowledge - if you would like us to confirm your billing situation, please reach out to support@kagi.com from/noting the email associated with your Kagi account, and we'll be more than happy to take a closer look. (Happy to continue clarifying in this thread as best I can)

z64

@laiz Jynx, looks like we were typing at the same time 😛 Thanks for touching on the Assitant bits.

I will add:

If its not clear, the current implementation is that we will show you a soft notice when you get to 80% of your alotted limit.
Once you actually hit the ceiling, we give you the option to renew your plan early to continue using Assistant. (at that point, you have exhausted all the money you've given us on API spend)

This "renew early" mechanism is temporary, and will be replaced by a system that will charge for any overage based on usage volume. (This will be opt-in)

Timmy256

Thanks for your quick replies @laiz and @z64; really appreciate it.

You are both correct in that I haven't seen the small subtitle there in the pricing page. I've tried looking into the tooltip next to the "Enough searches..." and since it wasn't specified there I thought that it was hidden under the documentation. Still, I think it would be a good idea to put it more visible either on the plan itself (e.g. "300 searches to get you going") or in the tooltip, instead of only having it in the small subtitle which might be easily skipped (as I involuntary did). The tooltip talks about average Google searches and such; maybe would be good to put the hard "300" amount there?

Regarding the downgrading topic, the message appears within Kagi (before going to Stripe) and I think it's not clear enough; at least for me. It says that the remaining credit (as you mentioned @z64) will be applied to the "new plan", but I'm not sure what credit its referring too, how much remaining credit it is talking about; also I don't think there is a wallet anywhere to keep track of that unused credit.

If you mention in your post that the renewal will stay the same, then what is the point of the message saying "By switching your plan, you renewal date will be XXX" if it will always be the same date of the original subscription? Isn't it redundant? I think it addd to the (my) confusion, as I was expecting to see there "Your renewal date will be March 2027" (random example); that new date resulting from the credit I have from July to January (my Ultimate plan renewal date), but now applied to the Professional plan (i.e. more months because $25 > $10). I hope I'm making sense with this explanation!

Thanks again for your comments.

z64

Re: 300 searches, agree we can reiterate in the tooltip. We'll do that.

If you mention in your post that the renewal will stay the same, then what is the point of the message saying "By switching your plan, you renewal date will be XXX" if it will always be the same date of the original subscription?

I believe there are some situations where this is not true. Or we might just show it to be explicit. Either way, we could change this text in the situations where its unchanged. Will have someone check.

I'm not sure what credit its referring too, how much remaining credit it is talking about; also I don't think there is a wallet anywhere to keep track of that unused credit.

Yea, it's a bit complicated, since again its managed entirely externally (Stripe); I would check your Stripe billing portal ("Manage Billing") and see if it is displayed there.

In any case our billing team will review this feedback against the matrix of edge cases - thanks! 😃

Timmy256

Thanks again @z64 for your comments.

Sorry if I sounded harsh in my OP; English is not my main language and also started worrying about Kagi future with those latest changes, because I really liked the service ever since I joined and wanted to continue supporting it so it keeps doing well. I would hate to see it go the way of anti-consumer practices in the future (e.g. not seeing prominently the 300 searches limits in Starter, mention of "enforcing" the limits now vs. the previous "Unlimited" AI tokens; without knowing at announcement time where was I standing in credit consumption [which, ironically, once you added the Billing Details, it added further transparency and now it shows I'm not near close needing Ultimate because my super-low consumption and can downgrade], feeling like you were giving away the Assistant for free to everyone now after I had to pay $270 to use it, etc.)

Have a great week.