[PRIVACY] Persistent AI chat logs may pose a privacy issue

ak42

I just stumbled upon this thread today https://kagifeedback.org/d/6520-ai-chats-should-be-kept-forever

Please someone tell me those logs are never stored in Kagi servers, or at least not in the clear, and without Kagi ever knowing the decryption key... or just store it locally to the user browser.

otherwise, please remove the preserve feature. or add a big fat red button saying it's a stupid idea.

AI chat logs should never be stored for obvious privacy reasons....

RoxyRoxyRoxy

Heavy disagree on removing it or storing it locally in browser. I have good info in some threads that I want to keep forever and have available across all devices. The preserve forever setting also has to be opted in to (by default they’re only kept for 24 hours) so anyone with that setting on probably knows just what it does and is perfectly fine with any privacy concerns.

ak42

a Master key owned by the user then and unknown to Kagi... (event the red fat button is a wrong solution as people can just... forget)

I just want people to be aware that if they store this information on Kagi server, at some point, the US gov can require Kagi to give up all user information, chat logs included.

but, excuse me, this:
so anyone with that setting on probably knows just what it does and is perfectly fine with any privacy concerns.

is totally wrong.
First because "probably" is not enough when your life depends on your privacy.

Imagine parents, being sold that Kagi is the BEST privacy search engine in the world, asking the Assistant how they could help their girl have an abortion in some other state.

Imagine some non technical foreign student in the US, being sold that Kagi is the BEST privacy search engine in the world.
and that same student would ask the Assistant for information about, something like "How can I help my Palestinans friends fight against genocide"

If at some point US gov gets this chat log, parents go to prison and bye bye foreign student VISA....

Google and Meta are already complying with requests regarding post Roe vs Wide, here's one example: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/sep/22/burgess-abortion-pill-nebraska-mother-daughter

People will just click on anything as they will believe EVERYTHING is privacy respectful on Kagi. Because that's what Kagi is selling... which obviously, is not in this particular case.

So YOU may know that it is not really a safe option. But everyone does not.

let's keep people safe in this weird time.

sarno

I don’t currently live in the US - nor have I ever previously done so - and I’m not thrilled by the prospect of losing access to something I greatly value without which, the Assistant would be far less valuable to me.

The Assistant already offers the option of deleting a particular conversation. I would assume - or, at the very least, I would hope - that if someone is seeking advice on committing a crime ¹ they might reasonably think to themselves “gee, maybe I should delete the record of this…” if they have already specifically opted-into persistent threads.
If Kagi is not at present using end-to-end encryption, then sure - I could see this as an argument for that. But everyone globally losing access to a high value feature because of a law in some US states? No!

¹ Please note I have not - and will not - offer an opinion on those laws.

ak42

This equaly applies to any country where Kagi is selling their products. Kagi will be obliged to comply with local regulations.

Making it impossible for Kagi to provide data IS the way to go.
I'm not asking to remove that feature. just make it safe by storing data encrypted by a user only known passphrase.

"If Kagi is not at present using end-to-end encryption"

If you can reset your password and still be able to access your data, they are not.

Also, w.r.t point 1. I'd rather know the system is "stupid human" mistake-proof

RoxyRoxyRoxy

ak42 So much of the Web and computers has been dumbed- and locked-down to cater to the dumbest among us, I’d rather Kagi not go down the road of removing features because a stupid user might mess up their life in spite of all common sense.

ak42

@RoxyRoxyRoxy I get your point.

But I truly believe that if Kagi wants to be a privacy-respectful company, they should comply with the basic rule:
we can't access our user data.

let's remove stupidity from the equation, something might not be a crime today, but may be in the future.

let's not remove any feature, let's just make user data encrypted.
I think that is not too much to ask when dealing with user privacy.