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Hi @davidetogni and all.

The reason your Pixel phone is prompting you with that screen is because you're a European user, and the European Union is forcing Google to give users a choice through the DMA:
https://www.android.com/choicescreen/dma/

Unfortunately, as you just witnessed, Google has pulled another trick from their hat to "comply without actually complying".

The obvious, low-effort and well-intended way to approach this would've been to allow people to choose from a list of actual search engines (e.g.: websites that accept search queries), as well as add new ones by entering a simple %s search string. They already do this in Chrome desktop for instance.

Instead, what they're doing is making people choose from a list of "search apps". As we all know (and Kagi is a good example of this), very few companies are going to develop a standalone "search" app. What they typically do is develop their own web browser, which then integrates their search engine into it. This is what the likes of DuckDuckGo, Brave and others are doing, and Google knows this very well.

As a result, if a user wants to switch to a different search engine:

  • It needs to have an app (many like Kagi do not)
  • Even if it does, the user now needs to open their search results in that web browser as well, meaning they're pretty much switching to a different web browser for 50% or more of their mobile usage. They likely don't want to do that.

Or... they can of course keep Google as their default search engine, which coincidentally does respect your default browser choice and will open your search results in Firefox, for instance.

What do you think most users will do?

It's a clear dick move by Google, and I've already submitted feedback to the European Commission. I know they're looking into some violations of the DMA in both Google a Apple's recent changes, so I really hope they look into this as well.

So right now, our options are:

  • Wait for Kagi to develop and submit a standalone search app that's accepted into Google's list
  • Wait for the EU to force Google to implement a proper search engine choice screen, rather than an app choice screen.
  • Switch to a different launcher (e.g.: Nova Launcher) that allows you to fully customize the search bar to use whatever search engine you like. This has the (small) drawback of gesture-based navigation not being 100% smooth the way it is in the native Pixel Launcher, but I've ended up switching to it as I'm fed up of Google's practices to prevent us from using competing services. Plus you get so many more features and customization.

I hope this helps everyone understand the situation and Kagi better assess whether it's worth pursuing a simple search app or not!

What's the problem? A search app can open your results in your default browser and all is good. I think most people will prefer to have a separate app to try out a paid search engine, rather than dedicate themselves at once.

In iOS, most search apps use the built in Safari webview to open URLs, for example Instagram, Google Maps, Perplexity. That would be an excellent solution for a Kagi app, in my opinion.

    5 days later

    Besides being a good way to garner more attention, I think a dedicated search/browser app would be a great way to bring all of Kagi's features front and center. Having stuff like the summarizer just a click away on the toolbar would be wonderful. Plus the auto complete you get when using the website directly (instead of the URL bar) is much nicer. It would be really cool to get that all the time.

    Before I used Kagi, I was all about using the dedicated duckduckgo browser because it was simple to use and had the "burn" feature which cleared all my browse history with a cool fire animation. (My smooth brain likes that kind of stuff). I would love for Kagi to just do that but put their own spin on it.

    Lastly, while I can set my Firefox mobile app to use kagi, it is just a custom search engine which doesn't pull the favicon. So it is just an ugly "k" with no graphics. It's lame. I like pretty things.

    carl

    Yeah, I'm not saying it's not possible to have a dedicated search app that simply redirects links to your default browser, and all the apps you mentioned behave the same way in Android.

    I was merely pointing out that this is quite a dishonest implementation by Google, because in the case of "pure" search engines, they aren't going to spend the time and money required to develop and maintain a mobile app that simply redirects search queries to their web site. If they do develop an app, most of them will go the extra mile and create a full blown web browser, trying to keep users there when they tap on search results. If not, most of them won't even bother to make an app because anybody can use the website. And they of course know many good search engines (like Kagi) don't even have an app.

    Google knows this, and they're pretending to comply with the EU directive while knowing full well that most people aren't going to switch away from Google search if that means also switching away from their existing web browser.

    That said, I do agree that Kagi's case might be different and a dedicated app could actually be worth developing. Like @Jon said above, it could be a nice marketing vector, as people would find the app when searching in the App Store / Play Store too, probably with glowing reviews 🙂 But it could also prove very useful to have an easier way to use the AI features from our phones.

    For instance, I'm thinking we could "share" a PDF document or a YouTube link directly to the Kagi app, so that we could get the Kagi Summarizer in a more native, "offline" UI inside a proper app, rather than having to open a tab inside a mobile browser. The conversational stuff (ask questions about document) could also look and feel a lot better inside an app I think.

    I have no idea of Kagi's plans and expertise when it comes to mobile development, and I may be biased due to my Flutter experience. But I do think Flutter would be a great choice for a "simple" app like this which doesn't require access to any low-level APIs or anything.

    Development is quick and easy, you get Android+iOS versions with a single, clean codebase that's easy to maintain by a single dev/team. Plus possibly desktop apps for Windows+MacOS+Linux, if you ever wanted that! But despite the single codebase, you can easily customize the UI to look and feel 100% native in each platform, with Material widgets in Android and "Cupertino" widgets in iOS. And performance is as close as it gets to native Swift/Kotlin for a cross-platform framework.

    The more I think about it, the more I see it 🙂

      22 days later

      hey together, I was working on a small app the recent weeks that also happen to do some of the stuff suggested here. You can have a look at it here: https://github.com/FaFre/bang_navigator and maybe the feedback from there can be used to further discuss the proposals here.

        That's amazing @arcfour ! I think this is exactly the kind of app that would be needed. And like I said in my previous post, Flutter does look like the ideal tool for this 🙂

        One question: I assume it's not possible to share local PDF files directly to Kagi for summarizing, right? I understand this is not a limitation of your app, but rather that Kagi can only analize content that's online, and so it only accepts URLs (just for me to confirm).

        Also, a small suggestion: The included widget is great as it is, but I think it would be useful to include a second, thinner widget that's just a search bar with no colored frame or anything. This would allow people with third party launchers to straight up replace their existing search widget with yours 🙂

        Thanks again for your work!

          arcfour Excellent work! Sell this software to Kagi and let's get the app out there swiftly.

              Thanks for the feedback! 🙂

              @VMX Implementing that feature is indeed possible. We can parse the PDF and convert it into text to feed into the summarizer. Similarly, we could also add support for DOCX files. However, I wonder if the Kagi team already has plans to offer direct document uploads? It seems like a feasible feature.

              • VMX likes this.
              6 days later

              Not sure if it's been mentioned, Firefox declares itself as a search app on Android. There's no UI to change the search app (the normal place to select default handlers is oddly missing), but you can disable the Google app, and Android asks you to select a new search app.

              So since I use Firefox, Kagi is now effectively my "search app".

              • VMX replied to this.

                silvenga Hey there!

                That's interesting, as I'm unable to select Firefox as search app on my Pixel?

                If I long press the search widget and open settings, I do get a menu to select my search app. But Firefox simply doesn't appear in the list. Not the regular one, not Firefox Beta and not Firefox Nightly either.

                I also tried disabling the Google app like you said, but then I just get a toast message saying "App not installed" whenever I try to search something from the homescreen widget.

                Would appreciate if you have any tips on how to set Firefox as my search app!

                    httpjames Unable to select Firefox here as well (i'm in Europe). Firefox possibly not "allowed" on the list as its not a search engine?

                        httpjames I am in Europe and as said I do have the new "choice" screen. Firefox is just not one of the options.

                        This is the full list of "search engine apps" that are available in the choice screen:

                        • DuckDuckGo
                        • Ecosia
                        • Brave
                        • Microsoft Bing
                        • Google
                        • Qwant
                        • PrivacyWall
                        • KARMA
                        • Yahoo Search
                        • WWF Panda Search
                        • You.com
                        • OceanHero

                        Apps need to apply to be included in Google's list, and there's even a feature request in Mozilla's forums for it:
                        https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/ideas/apply-for-the-android-search-engine-selector-screen/idi-p/53500

                        So I'm surprised that @silvenga was able to do that.

                        Are you maybe confusing the search engine choice screen with the default assistant app? Firefox does show up as an option when choosing the default assistant, but I think that was introduced in the Android 8 days when long pressing the Home button would open a search with your assistant. I think that's pretty much useless now that we've moved to gesture navigation and the search widget no longer triggers your assistant.

                            VMX So Kagi does not need an app, just apply to be included? That's a much shorter road to get Kagi on the home screen 🤩

                            • VMX replied to this.

                                jaranflaath Unfortunately an app is required to apply to the choice screen.

                                The way it's implemented right now, Google only allows you to choose from a list of apps that meet certain requirements (you can see the details in the link I shared). There's no option to enter a regular search string like you would when configuring a search engine in a web browser.

                                  My solution was just linking the widget search box to open the search field inside the app 🙂
                                  It's effectively the same and doesn't require the google registration.

                                    VMX I don't think the widget would work here. I'm talking about the Android search intent - which things like the global android search context menu use. My guess is the widget is hard coded (patching the Google app would be required). I don't use the Google app or it's widgets at all. I also don't use Google's official launcher - I use Nova.

                                    I'm in the US (using a Pixel 8 with latest Android, stock). That being said, this has been a feature for years (it uses the old menu to select the search provider, I wouldn't doubt it's from Honeycomb). Both Firefox and the Tor Firefox browser declare their ability to handle searching. So this isn't related to the EU anti-gatekeeping law.

                                    • VMX replied to this.

                                        silvenga Ah ok, in the last few messages we were referring to the new choice screen for the Pixel launcher, as the European Union is forcing Google to open up their launcher and offer people an option to switch their homescreen widget to use a different search engine.

                                        I also use other launchers, but it sucks that the experience is never as smooth as with the native one (especially the switching animations). Not sure if that choice screen ever come to the US as well.

                                            9 days later

                                            I am still looking for testers for my Kagi app (https://github.com/FaFre/bang_navigator) to get everything Google Play approved. Details regarding the test are written in the GitHub readme. All issues and feedback will be transparently documented in the GitHub issues, and therefore can indirectly provide feedback for this thread as well.

                                            All features are fully implemented, and currently, there are no open points or bugs. The app is ready to use 🙂

                                            @VMX the summarization of PDF documents is now available as well!