Make verbatim search option more visible

Vlad

carl Nice mockup! But if this showed up for every search I am pretty sure it would annoy users.

carl

Vlad It could for example be put on one row, and then you could remove the "X relevant results etc etc" line. Maybe with more button-like looks for + and -, and with checkboxes for stuff like "News" filter or verbose filter, then the "Refine" header could be dropped. Also different languages and date restrictions could be suggested when beneficial to the user. Or it could be put in the sidebar, as well.

carl

Vlad You know what? These suggestions could be at the bottom of the first page, underneath the results. If you don't find what you're looking for on the first page, you probably want to refine the search.

joonazan

@Vlad When I don't know the correct words, I first figure out the words and then do a search using those words. No search engine can guess my intention from a poorly worded query; neither can librarians. There simply isn't enough information in a few words.

What Google and unfortunately Kagi, too do instead is return something popular that vaguely corresponds to the query. Popular things are easy to find anyway and definitely not worth paying a subscription.

Vlad

joonazan This is why there is Verbatim option. Problem is having it on by default would lead to suboptimal search experience. So we are looking for ways to better surface this in UI as it is a common question, and there is an option that works - users just do not know or expect us to have it I guess. Looking for further feedback around it.

maaca

Usually I know exactly which words I want to search for, but often I get search results that contain only a few of them, with no warning that some of the words are missing from the page.

To get the results I want, I have to open a few pages to find out it's not what I want, then go back to the search bar and change the query to "all" "these" "words" (alternatively +all +these +words).

It would be great if the recognition worked and warned me before accessing the page, or at least if there was a bang that could force the search (like !e all these words' which would do"all" "these" "words" or `!e +all +these +words' trick).

I like what Google does. If the word is missing on the page, it adds the information to the search results so the user doesn't have to go to the page to find it. It even sometimes adds the option to add "" to the word in the search bar with one click.

I understand that this feature can be complex to implement. A simple bang that does the trick and makes all words mandatory would save a lot of time.

z64

Hi maaca ,

We have the "Verbatim" filter that does effectively what you described with each individual term quoted.

We can certainly add a standard bang for this, that sounds like a good idea.

You can also create your own at any time. The appropriate template would be /search?q=%s&verbatim=1 in this case.

Note that this option is somewhat special, in that once you turn it on we remember it for future searches, until you explicitly turn it off again.

maaca

Hi z64 ,
Fantastic, I've overlooked the Verbatim option, it does exactly what I want.

CrunchyFritos

a standard bang for verbatim makes sense to me.

leftium

Vlad

How about surfacing such features like verbatim in a left sidebar? If the sidebar is limited to only the top features you wish to surface, it would handle your previous objections (cluttered, won't fit on laptop screen)

Vlad

leftium That would be fine but our features are much longer than that

leftium

Vlad Yes, that's why I said "limited to only the top features you wish to surface"

Only the ones Kagi wishes to surface would be in the sidebar; it is not a replacement for the search tools menus, which would still exist at the top.

I would prefer having search tools in both the left sidebar and menus at the top because it still makes the search tools options easier to access and see.

Also I presented two ideas for reducing vertical space needed by Kagi's sidebar:

More/Less menu
Collapsible options

mhitza

Having used the verbatim option on and off since creating this topic, I have a few notes.

It's the behaviour I always want from a search engine. Match all of my terms across results.

However, verbatim, is too ... verbatim.
I make typos, and I want search engines to account for that, like the non verbatim option does. In all honesty, the only time I'd like true verbatim "character by character" match is when I paste an error message in my search, and that error message includes typos. Which could just as well be enabled by quotes around my query "phase search", instead of a configurable option (which also used to be how I'd query those in Google before it started getting too liberal with my search terms).

In summary I think that results should include all search terms in non verbatim mode.

And when it comes to signaling within the UI, alongside the "show more results" button, there could be an "switch to a less strict search for your query" / "try a more exploratory search" or something along those lines that switches on the (now) current search behaviour.

Vlad

We now show clearer marks when Verbatim is on.

However, verbatim, is too ... verbatim.

@mhitza that is literally what verbatim means .it is 1 or 0 either you want all your search terms verbatim or they are subject to search engine interpretation. It is very hard to do anything differently.

mhitza

Your argument makes sense, but I wasn't requesting verbatim search in my original post. I wanted to have all the search terms be part of my results. Verbatim was given as an option, and after using it for a while came back to leave my feedback on that approach. Which doesn't solve my problem in a general case.

Vlad

mhitza This is because 'general' case is differnet for everybody. Most people want the search engine to interpret more freely the query. For some that do not we introduced the verbatim option. It is not clear what else we can do?